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	<title>Comments on: The Soul of the Machine</title>
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		<title>By: Eric Silva</title>
		<link>http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/2007/11/the-soul-of-the-machine.html/comment-page-1#comment-11751</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Silva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 16:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://66.147.244.157/~belgiumk/2007/11/the-soul-of-the-machine/#comment-11751</guid>
		<description>This is really all about &lt;b&gt;coolness&lt;/b&gt;. If a frame is cool, then it has &quot;soul&quot;. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Coolness is about originality. I think cyclists want to be original. (Even in cycling friendly parts of the U.S., riding a bicycle seems pretty novel.) Getting a custom frame or a frame from a relatively obscure (but quality) frame builder is just another way to be original. Getting a frame from a company that advertises in &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.bicycling.com&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bicycling &lt;/a&gt; doesn&#039;t scream originality--and therefore isn&#039;t cool (therefore those bikes have no &quot;soul&quot;). Frames that are popular with those that have been cycling for a long time and probably have a few bikes (e.g. a Cross Check) are also cool, so that frame is considered to have &quot;soul&quot;.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;The purchase of a Trek or Specialized makes a certain statement, and it&#039;s not the statement most readers of BKW want to make. It&#039;s unoriginal, and therefore not cool--so no &quot;soul&quot;. But as Radio Freddy &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/2007/12/cannondale-caad-8.html&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;recently noted&lt;/a&gt;, an inexpensive, stock frame from a large corporate manufacturer can ride like a dream.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I would like to see some sort of double-blind &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepsi_Challenge&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Pepsi Challenge&lt;/a&gt; with these supposedly soulful bikes pitted against supposedly soulless bikes.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I&#039;m also curious when a corporation gets too big to produce bikes with soul. What&#039;s the &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_threshold&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;threshold&lt;/a&gt;? Independent Fabrication and Seven have been growing quite a bit in the past few years.  How many frames per year can a company make and still have &quot;soul&quot;?  Or do they simply have a certain fixed amount of soul per company, and the more frames they make, the more thinly the &quot;soul&quot; is applied each frame? :)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;A large company can have great craftsmen making wonderful frames, they just aren&#039;t as cool (and therefore are claimed to have no &quot;soul&quot;).&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;(By the way, I have two modern &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.merlinbike.com/2006/works/works.aspx&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Merlins&lt;/a&gt;--one stock road frame and one custom cyclo-cross--and they are both awesome. Full disclosure: I&#039;m on a &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://quadcycles.blogspot.com/&quot; REL=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;team&lt;/a&gt; sponsored by Merlin, but we certainly don&#039;t get the frames for free.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is really all about <b>coolness</b>. If a frame is cool, then it has &#8220;soul&#8221;. </p>
<p>Coolness is about originality. I think cyclists want to be original. (Even in cycling friendly parts of the U.S., riding a bicycle seems pretty novel.) Getting a custom frame or a frame from a relatively obscure (but quality) frame builder is just another way to be original. Getting a frame from a company that advertises in <a HREF="http://www.bicycling.com" REL="nofollow">Bicycling </a> doesn&#8217;t scream originality&#8211;and therefore isn&#8217;t cool (therefore those bikes have no &#8220;soul&#8221;). Frames that are popular with those that have been cycling for a long time and probably have a few bikes (e.g. a Cross Check) are also cool, so that frame is considered to have &#8220;soul&#8221;.</p>
<p>The purchase of a Trek or Specialized makes a certain statement, and it&#8217;s not the statement most readers of BKW want to make. It&#8217;s unoriginal, and therefore not cool&#8211;so no &#8220;soul&#8221;. But as Radio Freddy <a HREF="http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/2007/12/cannondale-caad-8.html" REL="nofollow">recently noted</a>, an inexpensive, stock frame from a large corporate manufacturer can ride like a dream.</p>
<p>I would like to see some sort of double-blind <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepsi_Challenge" REL="nofollow">Pepsi Challenge</a> with these supposedly soulful bikes pitted against supposedly soulless bikes.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also curious when a corporation gets too big to produce bikes with soul. What&#8217;s the <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_threshold" REL="nofollow">threshold</a>? Independent Fabrication and Seven have been growing quite a bit in the past few years.  How many frames per year can a company make and still have &#8220;soul&#8221;?  Or do they simply have a certain fixed amount of soul per company, and the more frames they make, the more thinly the &#8220;soul&#8221; is applied each frame? <img src='http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>A large company can have great craftsmen making wonderful frames, they just aren&#8217;t as cool (and therefore are claimed to have no &#8220;soul&#8221;).</p>
<p>(By the way, I have two modern <a HREF="http://www.merlinbike.com/2006/works/works.aspx" REL="nofollow">Merlins</a>&#8211;one stock road frame and one custom cyclo-cross&#8211;and they are both awesome. Full disclosure: I&#8217;m on a <a HREF="http://quadcycles.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">team</a> sponsored by Merlin, but we certainly don&#8217;t get the frames for free.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/2007/11/the-soul-of-the-machine.html/comment-page-1#comment-11713</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://66.147.244.157/~belgiumk/2007/11/the-soul-of-the-machine/#comment-11713</guid>
		<description>I see two kinds of &#039;soul.&#039;  There&#039;s a purely artistic soul, a bike that just moves you at an elemental level that you can&#039;t really describe.  Pegorettis and DeRosas do this for me.  Fondriests too - but most Colnagos and Bianchis don&#039;t.  IFs do, but comparable quality Litespeeds don&#039;t.  Kogswells do, but the lovely, somewhat comparable IROs don&#039;t.  Van Dessels, esp. the Country Road Bob, does.  The Langster doesn&#039;t.  I can&#039;t say why this is, it just is.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;There&#039;s also an engineering type of soul - an elegance that attaches to some simple, direct, effective equipment.  It doesn&#039;t grab you by the shirt and kiss you, you have to chase its excellence a little bit before you see it and come to love it.  I&#039;d give you some of the Cervelos as an example of that - there&#039;s nothing romantically aesthetic about them, but their function-dictated design has an honesty to it (and an excellence) that makes it very lovable.  The high end Pinarellos and Orbeas - they are beautiful, but I don&#039;t find them soulful, in spite of all the fancy supposedly functional bits.  Not everybody gets this engineering soul thing.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have had two bikes I find directly soulful, an old Fuji Dynamic that I converted into a fixie, and a Surly Cross Check that usually rolls with a flip-flop hub.  I actually miss riding those bikes, and feel a pang about having sold the Fuji and I strongly want to leave work right now just to ride the Surly for an hour before getting home.  Just a little hit, please?   &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I have a bike with that functional soul, a Giant TCR.  When I first bought it I looked on it as an expensive, high functioning tool. I can&#039;t see falling in love with one at first glance (though the &#039;07 TCR Advanced, in &#039;stealth&#039; livery is a little different).  Having put 7 or 8,000 miles on it, I&#039;ve come to really love its strength, the always-sharp handling, and the way I get off it and never have any aches and pains other than sore legs.  It just fits and works pretty much perfectly, and even though it&#039;s getting a little nicked up and worn around the edges, I find it more beautiful all the time.  I understand if you don&#039;t see it that way, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see two kinds of &#8216;soul.&#8217;  There&#8217;s a purely artistic soul, a bike that just moves you at an elemental level that you can&#8217;t really describe.  Pegorettis and DeRosas do this for me.  Fondriests too &#8211; but most Colnagos and Bianchis don&#8217;t.  IFs do, but comparable quality Litespeeds don&#8217;t.  Kogswells do, but the lovely, somewhat comparable IROs don&#8217;t.  Van Dessels, esp. the Country Road Bob, does.  The Langster doesn&#8217;t.  I can&#8217;t say why this is, it just is.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s also an engineering type of soul &#8211; an elegance that attaches to some simple, direct, effective equipment.  It doesn&#8217;t grab you by the shirt and kiss you, you have to chase its excellence a little bit before you see it and come to love it.  I&#8217;d give you some of the Cervelos as an example of that &#8211; there&#8217;s nothing romantically aesthetic about them, but their function-dictated design has an honesty to it (and an excellence) that makes it very lovable.  The high end Pinarellos and Orbeas &#8211; they are beautiful, but I don&#8217;t find them soulful, in spite of all the fancy supposedly functional bits.  Not everybody gets this engineering soul thing.  </p>
<p>I have had two bikes I find directly soulful, an old Fuji Dynamic that I converted into a fixie, and a Surly Cross Check that usually rolls with a flip-flop hub.  I actually miss riding those bikes, and feel a pang about having sold the Fuji and I strongly want to leave work right now just to ride the Surly for an hour before getting home.  Just a little hit, please?   </p>
<p>I have a bike with that functional soul, a Giant TCR.  When I first bought it I looked on it as an expensive, high functioning tool. I can&#8217;t see falling in love with one at first glance (though the &#8217;07 TCR Advanced, in &#8216;stealth&#8217; livery is a little different).  Having put 7 or 8,000 miles on it, I&#8217;ve come to really love its strength, the always-sharp handling, and the way I get off it and never have any aches and pains other than sore legs.  It just fits and works pretty much perfectly, and even though it&#8217;s getting a little nicked up and worn around the edges, I find it more beautiful all the time.  I understand if you don&#8217;t see it that way, though.</p>
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		<title>By: sydney_b</title>
		<link>http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/2007/11/the-soul-of-the-machine.html/comment-page-1#comment-11711</link>
		<dc:creator>sydney_b</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 22:01:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://66.147.244.157/~belgiumk/2007/11/the-soul-of-the-machine/#comment-11711</guid>
		<description>&quot;This soul has been accumulated through the innumerable tough lonely kilometres ridden in all weather conditions, on loads of dirt/gravel roads, in races and training all over the world. It&#039;s become an extension of me and my experience.&quot;&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;++</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;This soul has been accumulated through the innumerable tough lonely kilometres ridden in all weather conditions, on loads of dirt/gravel roads, in races and training all over the world. It&#8217;s become an extension of me and my experience.&#8221;</p>
<p>++</p>
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		<title>By: bikesgonewild</title>
		<link>http://www.belgiumkneewarmers.com/2007/11/the-soul-of-the-machine.html/comment-page-1#comment-11709</link>
		<dc:creator>bikesgonewild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 21:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://66.147.244.157/~belgiumk/2007/11/the-soul-of-the-machine/#comment-11709</guid>
		<description>...regarding soul: the potential for soul is built into any human-powered wheeled vehicle...if you, the rider, meshes &amp; flows w/ it, then soul is a by-product of your output together, beyond miles covered &amp; enjoyment gained...no matter what level of cycling you aspire to...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;regarding soul: the potential for soul is built into any human-powered wheeled vehicle&#8230;if you, the rider, meshes &#038; flows w/ it, then soul is a by-product of your output together, beyond miles covered &#038; enjoyment gained&#8230;no matter what level of cycling you aspire to&#8230;</p>
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